LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

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LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

Postby GIFTED HANDS » 11th May 2011, 17:28

Dear Zambia,

I have got a very strong,passionate feeling that if we Nationalised all the Mines in our Country Zambia,we would get all the BIG CHEQUES to ourselves as a Country and believe me Development would flourish as if it were in a dream !All we need is Action !
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GIFTED HANDS
 

Re: LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

Postby Official » 11th May 2011, 17:35

So Gifted please tell me. You sat there and thought very hard and very deeply. And this is the best idea you came up with? Didn't Kaunda try this trick back in the day, before some of you were even born?
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Official
 

Re: LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

Postby Pro Private » 11th May 2011, 17:42

Gifted Hands,

Can you please elaborate how exactly nationalising the mines will lead to development? Right now, all you want is for us to take your word. It doesn't work that way. Convince us with your gifted tongue.
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Pro Private
 

Re: LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

Postby GIFTED HANDS » 13th May 2011, 18:27

Official and Private,to start with what major benefits as a Country have we got from these Mines ever since outside investors overtook the running of these Mines apart from employment?As a Country what percentage out of 100% are we enjoying ?Do you guys have these facts?
Pick it from here and be real !
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GIFTED HANDS
 

Re: LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

Postby GIFTED HANDS » 13th May 2011, 18:41

And private what do you mean when you say''Tricky'',why is it a tricky to have the Mines under the hands of the Govt?Don't we know where in the world copper is on demand?Can't we process this copper by ourselves,find the market ourselves,sell the copper ourselves,bring the money home ourselves?Can't we buy mining machinery ourselves?

What makes us not to be the Zambian managing directors,accountants,engineers,just employees ourselves?What makes it not to do it ourselves?Where is the problem?OURSELVES[ZAMBIANS],WHY NOT?WHY?
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GIFTED HANDS
 

Re: LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

Postby Official » 13th May 2011, 18:43

Gifted,
please don't dodge a very simple question. What happened to the mines when Kaunda did exactly what you are suggesting? If you were born in the 1990s, just say so. There are people here who are older than soil and they will brief you on the topic. Thanks.
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Official
 

Re: LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

Postby regrets » 13th May 2011, 21:40

Nationalizing the mines ??? what a laughing matter.Dont forget that when Kaunda was in Power, he tied to nationalize everything. Namely , we had all the mines under ZCCM. we had Zambia Airways , National Railways, Indeni Petrolium, UBZ, Kafue textiles, Nitrogen Chemical , Mwaiseni stores , Zesco , National Milling , just to name a few , but most of these have are no longer there dur to mismanagement ander they eyes of the Zambian managers .
Dont think that development can come back once you nationalize again
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regrets
 

Re: LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

Postby JM » 14th May 2011, 05:55

If u did nationalise, then two things will happen: the prices in London (where they are controlled) will drop, like they did in the 1970s after nationalising in 1968. Second, there would be a lot of plunder by the Zambians and then.........(filll in the blanks)!
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JM
 

Re: LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

Postby GIFTED HANDS » 14th May 2011, 11:18

Okey guyz i hear you,JM/Regrets & Official thank you very much for bringing out all your points and believe me they are really beneficial for referral ya !
Now currently how are we benefitting from these Mines?I know there is employment[Though key and well paid positions held by foreigners],are all these Mines paying us genuine Taxes,apart from the aforementioned,how else is our mother Country Zambia benefitting from the big money that these Investors are making from our Mines?And Official please i would like to ask you not to give emotional replies[Like ''don't dodge'' and ''If you were born in the 90s''].Where ever you are,just know that am Zambian and you are Zambian too,we're family Man!So if you got a point i would love you say that point so we all benefit from your understanding of this whole issue.After all we are not implementing anyting here,we are just saying.

So gentlement let us single out major visible benefits that we are getting from the Investor run Mines !
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GIFTED HANDS
 

Re: LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

Postby GIFTED HANDS » 14th May 2011, 12:03

And besides if mismanagement seems to be a problem here,can't we then improve on the Controls[Frequent thorough Audits for example !] and Security[By engaging army for example],so that this mismanagement is done away with?I mean which is better,leave the Mines in the hands of the Investor who makes the money and goes to spend 80% of it in his Country?Or take charge ourselves,improve on mismanagement via high tech Controls and powerful Security and spend almost 90% of the profits to improve on roads,build more schools,build heathy facilities,pay our doctors well,pay our teachers well and other civil servants and above all ensuring that every Zambian very educated or not very educated benefit from these monies in one way or another.

And JM can't there be a way of ensuring that the copper price once Nationalised can't find it's way downwards on LSE?There must be a way really Man!
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GIFTED HANDS
 

Re: LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

Postby GIFTED HANDS » 14th May 2011, 12:30

Infact JM do you know we could do to control price on the Londone Stock Exchange[LSE]?We could start by Nationalising only one Mine okey.Whilst the Kitwe Mine[Now Mopani] and Chingola Mine[Now KCM],could still be in the hands of the Investor,we could Nationalise the new Luanshya Mine[With virgin ground]then do business and see how it goes.Controls[Audits]and Security[By Army]should be major concerns in the premises.You also need very powerful Marketing Managers[With high integrity]to not only monitor market movements but able to take care of LSE Staff in case there occurs any funny price movement.

So all you need is to play your game of chess well well.Have one/two Investor run Mines in the Country as your control but Nationalise the rest and see how it goes.What do you say eh?
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GIFTED HANDS
 

Re: LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

Postby Pro Private » 14th May 2011, 15:13

Gifted Hands.

The idea behind nationalisation is solid; let the people of the land benefit from it' own resources. But history has proven, especially in Africa with its klepocratic officials and mismanagement, that privately run mines provides more of a hope and a real shot at meaningful development. Private owners need not always be foreign investors. What if all the mines currently in operation were owned and managed by Zambians? Would you still be advocating for us to be taken back to the 20th century? Zambian or foreign, but never government owned
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Pro Private
 

Re: LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

Postby Chuck » 15th May 2011, 03:50

Gifted hands, this forum is too short for us to teach you history. First study some history and then come back here. It is not only Zambia that tried nationalization, it is many countries around the world. All have failed, end of story.
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Chuck
 

Re: LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

Postby GIFTED HANDS » 16th May 2011, 09:28

Can someone list down the MAJOR BENEFITS WE'VE GOTTEN as a Country from the Mines thus far ever since Investors started running these Mines apart from Employment !
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GIFTED HANDS
 

Re: LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

Postby Chimbwii » 16th May 2011, 10:55

Chuck

Let me help Gifted Hands abit. When copper worth $5 billion is sold Zambia gets about $2 million ( fact ). Should this be acceptable ? We can not keep on comparing the time Kaunda nationalised and now because the situations are different ie China was a nonentity then and Zambia was socialist.
By 1991, 99% of our economy was govt controlled, today 90 % is in private hand but all foriegn! In all so called developed capitalist countries over 60% of their economies are in their nationals hands though private.
Image you are Zambia endowed with all these natural resouces, abundunt fresh water ( not sea water) , plenty arable land but you are called poor meantime your friends such as Britain, Bulgium and Denmark etc with no major resoucre, their land put together is still smaller than you are being called rich just because their nationals are smarter than yours. How would you be feeling ? It is in this regard that Chimwiinomics has classied the world into two; Foolish countries and Clever countries. ( Simple and straight forward ). Being Zambia choose where you belong.
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Chimbwii
 

Re: LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

Postby Story » 16th May 2011, 16:57

Chimbwii
I think you left out one inalienable truth about Zambian government. Everyone treats it like their personal piggy bank, to dip in and take whatever they choose. Nationalizing the mines will simply mean fattening the usual suspects in government. The average Zambian will not see a penny. Things may have changed since Kaunda but this much never changes.
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Story
 

Re: LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

Postby Bobilos. » 16th May 2011, 17:18

Gifted,

Let me begin by reminding you that as a result of the Privatisation process, the Government of Zambia (through ZCCM IH) owns between 15% and 25% of the now privatised mines - that’s up to a quarter of the company in stock holding. Now this begs the question; where is the benefit of the dividend stream that the mines are declaring at their various listed stock exchanges? ZCCM IH is a recipient, but I cannot recall any investment initiative or large scale project that they are undertaking?? ZCCM IH should hence become a vehicle for development.

In truth we do not need to nationalise the mines; rather we simply need smart solutions to better benefit from the mineral boom as an economy. Instead of nationalisation lend a thought to the following suggestions:-

•There must be a direct impact on social economic status of the mining local communities

•Preference for local supplies and locally produced inputs. A large portion of our industrial development can be premised on the support of the mining industry.

•Up skilling of local staff (Along the lines of South Africa's BEE)

•Dual listing of these companies onto our local stock exchange inorder to allow the average Zambia become part owner and invest into this sector.

•Insisting on a PPP (Public Private Partnership) model for future mine developments and large scale projects.

•Prescribe a retention policy for funds due to sales proceeds in local banks to stabilise the Kwacha and provide much needed liquidity in the local economy that will allow for cheaper and more accessible credit.

•Prescribe that each Mine must have a strong Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) project that would be a percentage of top line revenue. These CSRs could make a real impact with schools hospitals and infrastructure being built and maintained.

Just my thoughts
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Bobilos.
 

Re: LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

Postby Mwinemushi » 16th May 2011, 17:32

My two cents: Gov't is not the answer,its the problem. All of you people wanting Gov't to "do for you " should be going back to school,read,learn and then invest your knowledge in the community we call zambia. Instead of setting behind your PCs complaining about foreign investers,try pressuring your Gov't into making indigenious investment easy and accessible. What we need is policies that favor local private investment,Gov't should be used as a tool and not the vehicle that drives investment. just saying.
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Mwinemushi
 

Re: LETS NATIONALISE MINES IN ZAMBIA !!

Postby It » 16th May 2011, 17:37

Mwinemushi wrote :
> All of you people
> wanting Gov't to "do for you " should be going back to
> school,read,learn and then invest your knowledge in the community we call
> zambia.

and that includes you yo baba Mwinemushi. Thank you.
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It
 


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